Failure begetting failure: the Arizona Immigration Law

Posted: April 30, 2010 in Headlines that make you want to punch somebody
Tags: , , , , , , , , , , ,

OOOH! Hot button topic! Quick – furrow your brow and get mad before reading this. If there is anything I’ve learned from politics it’s that nobody ever wins, but EVERYBODY gets pissed off, which generally makes for good TV. Let me preface this by saying that I lean neither right or left, my posture is pretty decent. I also try to stay away from placing myself into predetermined political categories because I prefer to think for myself. What I do love is making fun of politics because it’s just so damn easy. The issue at hand was interesting to me because it has some fundamental idiosyncrasies I felt compelled to bring to light as a layman peering in from the outside. I will never try to pretend like I know my ass from my face when it comes to politics, but I’d like to think I can smell a little trouble brewing in the political arena.

In case you are lagging behind the rest of the country on news or current events I’ll give you a quick, crude, ill-informed run down of what this bill is all about (I’d give you a link, but then I’d be lambasted for whichever “side’s” site I used by people from the other side). The Arizona bill makes it a crime to be in the U.S. illegally (woo!). The bill also gives local law enforcement the right to question anybody on the legality of their citizenship as long as they have “reasonable suspicion” to believe they may be illegal (ahhh crap). They were so close! Listen, it’s hard for me to take sides on this one because I do agree with what they’re trying to do, but I’m worried about how it will be carried out. Usually when cops are given this kind of open, sweeping authority, a video pops up on the internet of some minority getting the living bejesus beaten out of him. As long as they yell “stop resisting” it’s all good, right? In this case we’re saved, though, because the bill points out that racial profiling is not allowed. Haha, yeah OK, so let me get this straight – the point of this bill is to give the authority to question people about their citizenship who look like they might be illegal, but they’re not not allowed to racially profile? That’s like force-feeding somebody ex-lax and telling them not to shit; it’s damn near impossible. What does an illegal alien look like anyway? Hispanic? Native American? How about Polish, Russian, German, Italian or Irish? I’m just sayin’… How the hell is one supposed to be on the lookout for illegal immigrants without profiling, ESP?

Pro·fil·ing [proh-fahy-ling]

-Noun

the use of specific characteristics, as race or age, to make generalizations about a person.

I haven’t been around too long, but I’m pretty well versed in the meaning of “reasonable suspicion.”  It’s a simple way of saying, “We can do whatever we want, and since the letter of the law is subjective- you’ll never win.” I see where they’re coming from, though. The current border control system has failed so hard that Arizona lawmakers felt compelled to take this kind of extreme action in order to prove their point and take control of their state.

Is this too far? Maybe this is too far. Ehhh....

The left wingers will cling to the fact that this violates all of their civil rights, while the right wingers will cling to the fact that they’re not allowed, per the bill, to racially profile – thereby harming nobody. I will, meanwhile, maintain a realistic approach and say that regardless of what the bill says, the fact of the matter is that human beings are carrying out its work. Living , breathing, emotional, biased, opinionated human beings are being asked to maintain a keen eye for those who may be living here illegally… but not to racially profile them in order to make the determination.

Con-tra-dic-tion [kon-truhdik-shuhn]

-Noun

a statement or proposition that contradicts or denies another or itself and is logically incongruous.
direct opposition between things compared; inconsistency.

Give me a break, who do they honestly think is stupid enough to fall for this? Oh wait… I believe there is a document somewhere that reads ‘all men are created equal’. However, if a black man and I were both pulled over for the same offense, I’m willing to bet he is more likely to get the ticket. I think it’s safe to say that the human interpretation element to any written bill, law or reform can not be ignored.

I agree with what they’re getting at, but am at odds with the route they’re taking to get there. I’m all for border control (and frankly, I’m not completely against racially profiling either – because that’s also called being ‘street smart’), I hate dumping my money to pay for illegal immigrants just as much as the next guy. My problem lies in the fact that we are essentially asking law enforcement to racially profile, but forbidding them to racially profile (yes, you read that correctly). I just can’t shake the feeling that this seems an awful lot like a desperate attempt by a group of insecure officials to give authority figures free-reign to do whatever the hell they want in order to make up for an already failing border patrol system. Oh, ya know what – nevermind, I forgot that we’re fixing that too. Our hero is here.

pro·fil·ing

[proh-fahy-ling] Show IPA

–noun the use of specific characteristics, as race or age, to make generalizations about a person, as whether he or she may be engaged in illegal activity

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Comments
  1. Joanna says:

    They have to have committed a crime FIRST to be pulled over; just as they do now. The crime is essentially called in to dispatch before they even talk to the person. The only difference is now they get to say license, registration, insurance and citizenship papers. Did you know in Europe you are required to carry ciztizenship papers and if you don’t and get in trouble for something even as minor as speeding…they ship your ass back to the country you came from. I hear so much negative about this law. Though I’ve been involved and worked for political officials since I was 18 (and am now 34), I would not deem myself an expert by any means. This law may not be the answer and we will find out soon enough. Obama’s approach to immigration is essentially “don’t ask don’t tell”…I thought we just deemed THAT as inappropriate. If nothing else, mark my word…the Mexicans in AZ will start self deporting and that state will clean up…and then WE will get them all!! AZ may be on to something that was right in front of us all along. There’s never been any penalties for these people…now there is, what of it?

    • Nick says:

      I completely agree with what they’re getting at. They’ve been left essentially with no choice but to concede the border and weed them out from the inside because of the failing system we already have. My issue, again, is that I don’t trust the human element involved. We have the similar laws everywhere – you need to commit a crime before being questioned about certain things, cops need “just cause”. But reality of the matter is – they will create just cause. I’m not against carrying citizenship papers on your person, I, also, don’t think it’s too much to ask. Do I like that it is a crime to be illegal now? Hell yes I do, long time comin’. Am I against racially profiling? Not really, like I said – it’s a fancy way of saying “street smart” in my opinion. I’m just against the way it’s packaged because I have a bad feeling it will be misinterpreted wildly by law enforcement. I hope it works, I really do, I just don’t see the reality.
      Thanks for reading and commenting!

    • Actually, in Europe you don’t have to carry your papers with you all the time. Europe isn’t a country, it’s a continent, and every country has its own rules and laws. In Germany, you just need to be able to take a policeman to your papers if you are asked for them and don’t have them, or show them a photocopy that you have on you. I disagree with Arizona’s new laws too, but please don’t generalize to make a point!

    • bob in exile says:

      Lets go farther back to about 1936 or so… Mr. Schicklgruber came up with a plan to get rid of the unwanted aliens, He passed a law that they had to wear a star on their sleeve, later this was extended to the countries own citizens. To make sure that the law worked he had them sent to gas chambers.
      Ethnic cleansing….. its pretty much useless to explain whats wrong with this law because everyones polarized and cant see the forest for the trees.
      Every time a law is passed we wind up with more criminals… there are so many weird ass laws in the states now that EVERY AMERICAN is probably a lawbreaker….
      “Up against the wall & spread your legs you criminals!!!”,

      • Nick says:

        Yes! He said it, not me!

      • Scott says:

        Dude. Your ignorance of the holocaust is staggering and offensive. The people with stars on their sleeve were there CITIZENS OF THAT COUNTRY. There were there legally, it wasn’t until the national SOCIALIST movement took power that they were murdered by the millions. Keep that in mind next time you compare illegal immigration versus legal immigration. You offend people who actually suffered under the law. Just like every country on earth, we have the right to secure our borders and enforce immigration law. I’m afraid ignorance like the kind you displayed here is the prevailing ‘wisdom’ of most of the left wing. Frankly, I was a liberal until I really started listening to what people like you were saying. So so sad.

    • hisfool says:

      Actually if you are not a US Citizen you are supposed to carry your green card with you at all times so in reality AZ is not asking people to do something they are not already supposed to be doing.

  2. D. Gonz says:

    at work, not much time to comment, but one thing you do have wrong is that illegals cost tons of money. citizens on welfare and in jail cost sooo much more per person. immigrants are the current scapegoat for the US’s shitty economic status. get rid of the immigrants and the price of virtually everything goes up. then what?

    • Nick says:

      I thought I mentioned that they cost a ton of money (about how I don’t like to dump money)? Anyway, agreed, it’s a double edged sword but I would like to see some actual numbers, if they exist, on who costs us more money – illegals, or current American deadbeats, because I honestly don’t know and would like to.

  3. Breland Kent says:

    I don’t really know what to say about this topic, I just hope everyone can come to some kind of agreement. 🙂

    • Nick says:

      My jaded view of politicians coupled with my lack of trust in humanity leads me to believe that this, unfortunately, will never happen.

  4. mephjeff says:

    On the point re: costing money, illegal immigrants add billions to the economy each year. Here’s an article on it.

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/464357/benefits_of_illegal_immigration_offset_pg2.html?cat=17

    Some people just don’t like salsa.

    • Nick says:

      haha, I’ll definitely give this a read. Like I said, I don’t know shit about this in depth… just calling is as I see it. Thanks for the link!

    • ahsya says:

      They are also costing us money and there have been several articles on that. What is wrong with respecting the laws of the country you chose to vist, work, or live?

  5. ramonakent says:

    The only ones who seem to have a problem with this law are the ones who are here illegally, they come into the country and work and send all of the money back to relatives in Mexico and they do not pay taxes. Their illegal populations are increasing by the masses and we are slowly being out numbered. Why can’t they make a life for themselves in their own country..Mexico is not poverty stricken and if you work hard there you can make a good life…I have very good Mexican friends that live very well in Mexico…I don’t get it.

    Ramona Kent

    • Just Me says:

      “The only ones who seem to have a problem with this law are the ones who are here illegally”

      Really? I keep reading that from people who are for this law and it’s ridiculous. There are tons and tons of people who aren’t illegal immigrants who have serious reservations about this law.

      • Nick says:

        ^Gotta give a point to “Just Me” on this one. Totally agree.

      • ahsya says:

        o Mexico isn’t the only poverty stricken country in the world. We have accepted more than enough of the poverty stricken citizens of South America we cannot absorb the whole country or every other poverty stricken country in the world. We cannot continue to allow them to disrespect and break our laws. Is the situation in Mexico and the rest of South America worse than the current situation in Haiti? Enough charity, patience and understanding already time to enforce the laws. Elected officials in other states across America and other countrys’ that do not have a problem with illegal immigration give them a free pass to your state, and country. We cannot continue living like this people. Try living 20-50 miles from the border for a year and let me know how that turns out if your still alive. You cannot see that this is an issue every election take your blinders off already.

      • Zol says:

        yes “Ramona” looks like her grand parents immigrated like 50 years ago, made a little cash, moved to suburbs and now they feel “above” other immigrants.

    • vero says:

      You don’t get it because you don’t understand the histories of both your country and of Mexico’s. If you did, maybe you would see why wealth is so badly distributed. In the U.S. we don’t have such a huge gap between rich and poor but that is not the case in Mexico. Mexico is also badly corrupt. Do you know any illegal immigrants personally? Why don’t you try befriending some and try to see things from their perspective? Nobody would leave their home and family, to go to an unknown land, apart from the culture you know, to work awful jobs and be treated lower than a third class citizen, in fact not treated like a citizen at all but instead labeled as “alien”.

      • immigrant1 says:

        You are the one that is not getting it
        I am one immigrant myself a legal one, more than that I am now one American Citizen.
        Nobody ever treated me like a third class citizen. I delivered news papers , phone books, work in gas stations and plant nurseries. I also got a college degree and a masters degree This is about illegals.
        Now you smarty, do you know the difference between legal and illegal.
        Inside of the law and outside of the law?
        You called me idiot because of the name California and immediately showing you r ignorance and lack of culture you said and I quote”California used to be Mexico you idiot. Spanish-speaking people named it California before you were even born.”
        YOU ARE WRONG. The first one to arrive to Mexifornia (former North American California,before the invasion) were inhabitants of the Island of Califfornia with 2 F name that way in honor of Queen Califfia.
        Got it smarty?

        Califfia (probably from Arabic “Caliph”, which was understood by Europeans to mean king/ruler) is a legendary Amazon warrior queen, associated with the mythical Island of Califfornia. The US state Californiaas well as the Mexican states of Baja California and Baja California Sur, are thought by some to be named after the queen

    • Zol says:

      How come your grand parents did stay at their home country, “ramona” you look like come from immigrant decent yourself….

  6. LOL says:

    LOL. Ya gotta love liberal propaganda….

    • Nick says:

      Gotta love leaving a comment like this under a fake name and fake email address.

      • Rex Range says:

        Do you live right near the southern U.S. border with Mexico, having your property, your life overrun by the tidal wave of illegal immigrants? Have you had a relative killed on his or her own property by them? Millions of people are living this reality every day, and this new law was designed to protect them. Smug liberals always have the answer for everyone else’s lives but never the guts to endure what their policies create nor the decency to admit that the majority of honest concerns being raised by those who happen to disagree with them are not about “racism” or “bigotry” but about SURVIVAL. Got it? Good.

      • Nick says:

        Smug liberal? Have the answers? I told you first I know nothing about politics and lean neither way, then I wrote that I agree with what they’re getting at but don’t trust the way it will be carried out. THEN I said I actually DO agree with racial profiling (relating it to street smarts, thereby relating it to survival). So please don’t “got it? good” me, because you’re just embarrassing yourself. You make it sound like I want to drop our borders and let them all in. Did you see the part where I said I hate dumping my money for illegals? I haven’t said I was a liberal, haven’t disagreed with what they’re trying to do and never even brought racism up (I actually alluded to the fact that it would be very difficult to profile because: 1) they’re technically not allowed per the language of the bill, but also 2) it’s not about ‘race’ per say… because they can be white too – did you read that part? or skim it then come here to make retarded comments?) If you want to rant just to see your words on the screen, start a blog – I did.

  7. Seems like the law creates somewhat of a paradox…

  8. izziedarling says:

    Great post!

  9. Simplistic Woman says:

    Most places in Mexico are poverty stricken. Why should we care that they want to send money back to their families; don’t you lend or give your family money. The Mexicans hear in this country do the jobs that we are too spoiled to do. For taxes in that mater and they technically do pay taxes every time they make a purchase. Yes they don’t get taxes taken out of their pay checks, but regardless the things are taxes pay for such as firemen and police officers the same would still be there. They are unable to own their own property, they are unable to qualify for benefits from the luxuries us spoil brats do, so who cares. They are not taking up much space or resources. Also the jobs that they do, would you like to work on roofs, work in the hot sun from 6am-9pm, or would you like to haul around cow manure. I’m just saying.

    • Nick says:

      I’m not sure I want to touch this one…. However, I DO think they take an enormous amount of space and resources. There is a stat out there that says 60% of all crime in AZ is committed by illegals, which means we’re paying to process, house, and jail them. Also – I think plenty of people would like those jobs. Maybe the people paying for the labor won’t like American prices, but I think Americans want jobs. I lied, I touched it.

    • ahsya says:

      Mexico isn’t the only poverty stricken country in the world. We have accepted more than enough of the poverty stricken citizens of south America we cannot absorb the whole country or every other poverty stricken country in the world. I do not care about them sending money to their relatives we cannot continue to allow them to disrespect and break our laws. Is the situation in Mexico and the rest of South America worse than the current situation in Haiti? Enough charity , patience and understanding already time to enforce the laws. Elected officials in other states accross America and other countrys’ that do not have a problem with illegal immigration give them a free pass to your state or country.

    • Joseph says:

      oh fer cryin’ out loud! another schmuck who accuses ALL of us Americans of being spoiled just because SOME of us won’t do it…..got news for ya….there are PLENTY of people (like me) who would do these jobs and do it for those hours…..the problem is that most of these farms are too cheap to pay the kind of wages we need in order to make a decent living…these farms work off the mentality of why pay an American min. wage (about $7.15 per hour last time I checked) when you can exploit an illegal alien for at least half that? that’s what needs to be fixed….

      so actually a better way would be to require all employers to use E-verify…..once the illegal aliens can’t get a job here…they’ll pack themselves up along with their families and skedaddle…It’s called attrition through enforcement

      • Nick says:

        ^ Very nice. Candidate for comment of the day

      • tinamarie says:

        When Arizona passed the E-Verify here, there was a massive outpouring of illegal aliens…I am in favor of our governor’s law…it is by far NOT new however, as the media is trying to play it. This law has been a FEDERAL law for years, it just has not ever been enforced. We in Arizona are now being demonized for just enforcing it. If you don’t think it is a good law, come here and live for a couple of years, you will change your mind after you see eight 12 to 15 year old girls raped over four months by an illegal serial rapist, residents murdered, police officers murdered, drugs pouring in daily and killing our children, not to mention the murder of many of our border guards. I have never understood a person’s mentality who feels sorry for people who are immediately breaking OUR law by coming into our country illegally. I’m not cold-hearted. The federal government should build a WALL not a fence. Then, once the inpouring of illegals have stopped, let those that are here (as long as they are not criminals) apply for work visas and save their money until they can apply for citizenship. We MAKE other people from OTHER countries do that…why are those from Mexico more special?

      • jerry says:

        It is not strictly a Mexican problem. It is an illegal problem. When people break the law they (don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time) are like any other criminal. It is a crime to be in the USA illegally, period. This is the root cause of the problem. Other cultures have varied laws. If you go there you have to respect them or do the time in prison. Why should American Laws be disrespected by illegals.? If here illegally from any country you should expect to be deported immediately if caught.

  10. ahsya says:

    Instead of requesting for Major League Baseball to send a message by boycotting Arizona.They should be used as an example of how sucessly big business can still be when they legally employ international players/employees.Represntatives of other states that do not reside in or near a border state need to camp out 20-50 miles from the border so they can get an understanding of this problem since the half million illegal immigrants in Arizona doesn’t open up your eys to this negleted problem.It is time to boycott the federal government, Mexico, and all other South American countries that want us to continue to do absolutely nothing about illegal immigration. Things that can and need to be done prior to the election (we cannot wait until November): 1. Send military personnel to the borders of all border states at the same time since it is proven you cannot secure one part without the other(we have been at war for a decade or so and anyone including terrorist can enter illegally whenever they want. Are we really at war?).2. Immediately deport all illegal immigrants that are currently housed in our jails and prisons (if legal immigrants commit certain crimes they can and do get deported. 3. Reimburse all states for the social services and all other resources (healthcare, education, courts, translators, jails, prisons, courts, public defenders, etc) that have been used and spent on illegal immigrants. No more monies and aid should be given and dispersed to the international community until this is done (the law states we are to be reimbursed). Time to start making sure things is taken care of at home first.4. Implement the hiring practices of the city, state, and federal to ensure the employment of illegal comes to an abrupt end.Mexico alone have received millions if not billions of dollars from America but border states cannot be reimbursed for services rendered.
    This has nothing to do with racism (or hitler) because if it was about racism they wouldn’t be here legally or illeaglly so stop with the racism bit alraedy. This is about the laws of land not be respected or enforced.

  11. ahsya says:

    It is great and about time that someone has finally produced an outline.For the last several decades we have continuous been misled by democrats and republicans when it comes to not only enforcing the laws that we already have but also actually doing something about the current situation.The Border States need action now all of them not just AZ. As a native of Los Angeles I am glad Arizona has done this because maybe our federal government will finally take action.The focus need not to be on the AZ law and racial profiling that has always been a part of law enforcement (from the local to fed law enforcement, etc) black Americans have been racially profiled since slavery ended and if you do not think this does not still happen in the 21st century then it is time to wake up (is it right no, does it still happen yes). Everyone need to focus on getting our federal government to take action right now. This is not about anti-immigration this is about illegal immigration and if Carlos Diaz do not understand that I am truly disappointed with him, our city council our mayor, our governor, and all other elected in the entire country that do not take action in assisting the border states in getting immediate assistance prior to the elections.For Carlos Diaz to set up camp on Alvera Street (in Downtown L.A.) and say he cannot find anyone in Los Angeles that at least if not agree understand why Arizona is doing what they are doing is unfair, biased, and irresponsible journalism.Carlos Diaz, city council, members, and entertainers that do not assist in ending illegal immigration need to go and live (Shakira, Ricky Martin, Liza you have enough money to build a mansion on the border) 20-50 miles from the border since they do not have a problem with illegal immigration and how American citizens are suffering in some instances being literally killed by it.Do not protest and boycott AZ Use your star power to protest and boycott the federal government for not enforcing the law.

  12. I like that you wrote that you are not completely against racial profiling. Although I can understand that the Arizona law sends a mixed message, what do you expect? When the United States’ Supreme Court screws up some of its decisions about what section 1 of the 14th amendment means, (Equal protection is not the same as proclaiming all to be equal about every thing.) some seek to please that stupid court. And defending against A. C. L. U. litigation can be costly. The judiciary ought to be checked when it is wrong.

    My understanding is that all are to be equally protected from being punished until there us a due process of law. That is not the same as saying that a black is equal in all ways to a white.

    And politicians are afraid of losing votes. What politicians would be called a racist when considering how racially diverse the electors (voters) are? When Americans became ignorant of the Bible, they began to lose their knowledge about the foundation of solving our problems, including the problem of racial diversity.

    Thanks for most of your article.

    • Nick says:

      Thanks for reading. I’m not sure I agree with the bible part though. “When Americans became ignorant of the Bible, they began to lose their knowledge about the foundation of solving our problems, including the problem of racial diversity.” I don’t think losing knowledge of a fictional text qualifies as a significant part in American undoing. Religion is solely responsible for most racial squabbles in today’s world. Thanks for most of your comment.

  13. neurotype says:

    The funny thing is, I don’t think this law changes that much: pro- or anti-illegal law enforcement can continue doing as they please. There’s no burden to identify someone as decisively legal or not, more so than there was before (I mean, haven’t we always deported?).

    The problem is that the language used in the bill, and the addition of jail time–not to mention the fact that Caucasians just don’t “look” illegal–is highly offensive.

  14. cshroom says:

    So I have to wonder what would constitute as citizenship papers? I mean will I need to carry my birth certificate everywhere? Then again, have you seen most birth certificates? They are just embossed papers. ID cards? will my driver’s license be OK?

    Wait, I don’t need to show my citizenship papers, I was born here. Oh, I am dark skinned. Might not work so well for me there…

    There are just too many areas where this will fail miserably. However I am eagerly waiting for Cheech Marin to capitalize on the sequel to Born in East L.A., Born in South Phoenix.

  15. Oamaam says:

    How simple can this be? You knew ahead of time the ramifications of coming and staying ILLEGALLY, and you think you have rights in this country, which I’d say a vast majority do not even know the Pledge of Allegiance. And you have the gall, the nerve to complain after raping our financial system , our school’s , our medical system. Some of you work your ass’s off “Those I can see putting to the front of the line” The Slackers/non productive people, hit the road. And to the non singing NON American Bimbo who is speaking up, please take your pathetic ass back to Brazil and mind your own business.

    If I goto Mexico and have no passport or papers I goto jail, unless the drug cartels kill me first. So here in the United States of America, we have rules, your breaking them you goto jail.

  16. Arkay says:

    Just killing myself laughing at your ‘ex-lax’ comment. Couldn’t be more true. Should be incredulous that legislation of this sort actually makes it into law (and not itself laughed out of committee), but being Canadian, have seen just too much of the same for far to long in your fine country. Good luck in enlightening even just a few, but i suspect those who read and get this (your post) would have anyways.

    Was literally just about to put a (pseudo)Quote on my blog re: the difference between knowing the truth, as opposed to simply believing the truth, and that moving from the latter to the former entails then becoming responsible for said truth, requiring action as opposed to allowing evasion. Same thing could apply to ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ i guess. Like you said, “They were so close”.

  17. immigrant1 says:

    I am one immigrant too. LEGAL IMMIGRANT. Took me 8 Years to reach the status of US Citizen. Theses leeches want it now and for free.
    Racist are the immigration laws of Mexico. Just read them.
    In Mexico if you demonstrate on the street you will be deported. Don’t like the laws of this country, too bad. Go back
    The illegal’s come to this country and take everything for grant.
    Big suck up. 36 billion Dollars sent to Mexico annually free of taxes. Actually, the biggest source of Mexico income after PEMEX. I fully support the Governor of Arizona and I do not see the day that Texas passes the same law. USA is broke and theses leeches do not help by taking the money of the Nation to Mexico free of taxes.
    We are destroying our country to held to built Mexico

    Now , Ladies and Gentlemen The Mexican Immigration Laws:

    April 10, 2006
    New regulations for immigrants in Mexico
    Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country. This ban applies, among other things, to participation in demonstrations and the expression of opinions in public about domestic politics.

    Equal employment rights are denied to immigrants, even legal ones, even those with green cards.

    Only citizens may serve in the military as officers, on airline crews , and chiefs of seaports and airports.

    Members of both houses of Congress as well as the Supreme Court must be a citizen by birth.

    Immigrants — even legal ones — may not become members of the clergy.

    Foreigners, legal or illegal, may not own land.

    Any citizen may arrest illegal immigrants and their accomplices, turning them over without delay to the nearest authorities.

    Foreigners, legal or otherwise, may be expelled for any reason and without due process.
    Like them??? Are they racist??? Again, my support to the governor.

  18. William says:

    I’m an Aussie. Can I be an illegal immigrant too?

  19. okfine says:

    Report from Amnesty Intl. about the plight of many migrants. Not sure it supports either side of this discussion but definitely helps to be aware of all dimensions of the problem.

  20. OZZY O. says:

    As you all know Arizona and many other cities were
    Mexican but a very bud goberment in Mexico end up giving all this land to the AMERICAN PEOPLE (army)so why not to understand this mexican imigrants that all they have done is build your contry defend your contry work for peanuts and giving you beautiful places to live in peace but,No we have to get rid of them, that is your wish. VERY COLD BLOODED CHRISTIANS IS ALL YOU ARE.

  21. omg very creative pictures!

    Remain.Simple

  22. Pied Type says:

    It’s pretty simple, really. The government should enforce existing U.S. immigration law, and everyone on U.S. soil should obey that law.

  23. annisisbell says:

    I have a simple, harmless blog, http://countybycountymonroetn.wordpress.com/, where I am attempting to tell voters which candidates oppose illegal immigration.

    Get this. I came online yesterday morning and attempted to post a comment. After I clicked the “Post it” button a page came up that said

    Are you sure you want to do this?

    I attempted about four times to post my comment but kept getting that question.

    Someone at WordPress attacked my blog. This is pure harassment and it is scary.

    I fear for America. We need to demand that the President of Mexico stop sending Mexicans up here and telling them where to get medical treatment and other social welfare.

    I know the owner of this blog is trying to be lighthearted about this but its really not funny. The governor and the people of Arizona are overwhelmed with Mexicans

    Florida is so overwhelmed that Americans with mental illness cannot get treatment but are put on waiting lists because illegals overwhelm the system.

    California has totally gone Mexican, our greatest state now belongs to Mexicans, many of whom have IQs in the 60s.

  24. […] I like this guy. Him being from Chicago – whence little good ever comes – notwithstanding. Also notwithstanding his admission that “I will never try to pretend like I know my ass from my face when it comes to politics,” there’s wisdom in this post of his regarding Arizona’s new law: […]

  25. My dos centavos,

    The law really doesn’t change much. It’s always been illegal to be in Arizona if you are not properly documented. The biggest fear is the portion that allows the police to stop anyone merely on the “suspicion” of being here illegally. In other words, just because they feel like it. Many, and I include myself in this, fear “racial profiling” – just stopping and searching people, anyone, because they look a certain way with *no probable cause* such as a known criminal history or evidence of criminal activity *at the time* – that’s the key. That’s just plain scary for ALL of us who cherish our civil rights and Constitution. The Bill is flawed in many other ways, too. It was written quickly and to serve our Replacement Governor in the upcoming elections. As you’ll recall, Janet Napolitano was our previous Governor. Ms. Napolitano, despite her faults and our complaints, would not have cobbled together a self-serving piece of crap such as the Bill.

    Of course we hope law enforcement always acts correctly and professionally. As it is mandated to do.

    Arizona has struggled with its border issues since I was a little girl in the Jurassic Era and before that, too.

    G-d knows we so badly need legislation and action concerning the Border Issues. We surely do. All of our current laws are ineffective! So let’ Get ‘er done!!! But carefully, thoughtfully, humanely and in a form that will endure.

    A loyal but somewhat sheepish Arizona Native,

    Athena

  26. tfockler60 says:

    I don’t mind taking the heat…I say Profile them, round them up, ship them out! The moment they step foot in this county without having gone through the LEGAL channels to get here they are CRIMINALS and have broken the law, that’s all the REASONABLE SUSPISION I think they need to ask for papers. They have NO civial rights here and should not be treated as if they do. They have NO Constutitional right here and should not be treated as if they do. I will say it again. THEY ARE CRIMINALS and as such should be treated as crimimals.

    As for Arizona taking a hard stand, well they have not done anything that is not ALREADY federally legal to do, they just removed the need of the Federal Government to take action and gave it back to the State where it should be.

    It’s time someone sent a clear message to them all…you are welcome here IF YOU COME IN LEGALLY, if not, then suffer the consequences. This is NOT LITTLE MEXICO

    • immigrant1 says:

      That is it. Nothing else.It is so simple as that, why there are people that can not understand it?

  27. tfockler60 says:

    OZZY O. :As you all know Arizona and many other cities wereMexican but a very bud goberment in Mexico end up giving all this land to the AMERICAN PEOPLE (army)so why not to understand this mexican imigrants that all they have done is build your contry defend your contry work for peanuts and giving you beautiful places to live in peace but,No we have to get rid of them, that is your wish. VERY COLD BLOODED CHRISTIANS IS ALL YOU ARE.

    Lets see you forgot to mention…they have drained our social welfare programs, social security programs, job markets, brought us inferior building practices, contaminated our crops, over run our schools, brought us violent criminals, increased our crime rates, distroyed our neighborhoods, ransacked the credit industry, pay no taxes, contribute to nothing, and DEMAND to be treated as citizens.

    Sorry if you don’t like where you come from, fight to change it. DON’T come here and tell me a hard working LEGAL CITIZEN that I must SUPPORT YOUR ASS and all your illegal kids because you tell me I have to. Its not a CHRISTIAN issue its a LEGAL one and clearly YOU are one of the problems! Go home.

    • Nick says:

      zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzing!

    • bob in exile says:

      Lets leave Jesus out of this…Homeland Security is going to deport him also. By the way what do the people who voted this law in think of NAFTA? Mexico is the USA’s 3rd largest trading partner…should we tell them to go buy their commodities in Europe or China? Get ready for a serious inflation jump. Duhhhh!

      • Nick says:

        I don’t trust anybody who claims they can walk on water. Just yesterday some guy with a beard and flip flops on the street was yelling about how he could cure the blind and the cops hauled his ass off.

    • immigrant1 says:

      You are confused, Christianity is one thing, Law of the Land is another thing.
      In any country in the world ,if you do not obey the law , you will be in trouble. USA is not one exception

  28. Harry Elliott says:

    Isn’t it obvious how in general the Liberals, and in particular
    Obama are laying the groundwork for amnesty to illegals because
    they see them as potential voters for THEIR side?

    Just like in the health care fiasco they are turning a deaf ear to
    the voice of the people. Why isn’t it that they don’t get that
    it is “the American Way” to be patient, and disciplined and
    follow the rules in order to be successful and realize your dreams

    You want examples? Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Thomas Edison, Bill
    Gates just to name a few. Did you ever spend a day in court fighting
    a minor traffic summons? It’s like a cavalcade of incompetence,
    lack of discipline and downright ignorance on display. Many people
    can’t even get it together enough to have their credentials in
    order ie. license, registration, and insurance cards. My successfull
    African American friends refer to this as the “failure chain.”

    Do you honestly think that if you traveled on your own in Mexico
    as a tourist or on business, and even if you did have you credentials
    in order, wouldn’t fear being “shook down” by Federales if they
    caught you in the wrong place and time.

    There is a reason that these people are coming here, and that is because
    in America there is less corruption of this sort. By trying to circumvent
    rules that apply to everyone it only serves to feed in to this corruption
    that will grow. This isn’t about racism or unfairness, it’s about
    preserving order.

    • immigrant1 says:

      You are absolutely right A+++++
      I came from another country, when I arrived here I knew that I must speak English, and have to obey the rules and regulations and respect the traditions of Th USA, I knew it before I came and if I did not like it I stayed in my country of origin. The official language of the United States of America is English, period. My country now is the USA ,took me 8 Years to became American Citizen. I celebrate the 4th of July. El 5 de Mayo means nothing to me. Love it or leave it

  29. tfockler60 says:

    Nick :I thought I mentioned that they cost a ton of money (about how I don’t like to dump money)? Anyway, agreed, it’s a double edged sword but I would like to see some actual numbers, if they exist, on who costs us more money – illegals, or current American deadbeats, because I honestly don’t know and would like to.

    Check out the “FAIR” website. Admittedly they could be seen as bias but they do have some astonishing figures to mull over.

    http://www.fairus.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=16980&security=1601&news_iv_ctrl=1017

    • Nick says:

      This is fantastic. I can’t read it now but I will definitely dig into this later. I hate being ill-informed so this will help me be more of an asshole, but this time – with backup. Thank you!

  30. tfockler60 says:

    bob in exile :Lets leave Jesus out of this…Homeland Security is going to deport him also. By the way what do the people who voted this law in think of NAFTA? Mexico is the USA’s 3rd largest trading partner…should we tell them to go buy their commodities in Europe or China? Get ready for a serious inflation jump. Duhhhh!

    NAFTA…roflol…sorry that just got me. Perhaps some of those much needed jobs that found their way into Mexico by American Companies would return home providing Americans in need of work some options…oh wait…thats corporate america and we all know they will sell out the “american citizen” in favor of “profits” every time.

  31. brucetheeconomist says:

    Giving that you don’t expect this law to work because it assumes people are better than they are, I’d say you’re a conservative in the classic sense. That is you question solutions that assume government officials will behave other than to promote themselves. This is as opposed to hypernationalist, moralists, who want to use goverment liberally (pun) to help the real America.

    • Nick says:

      I actually implied that I don’t think this law will work because humanity is, as a whole, scum and will find loopholes in order to exploit it. And I assume that government officials will act solely to promote themselves. Did you read all of it or just see the Hitler mustache and freak out?

  32. John Aspen says:

    I honestly don’t give a rats a** what anyone thinks about this, After being born and raised in Southern California for 48 years, I’ve seen how illegal immigration has turned the once 6th largest economy into a 50 billion dollar in debt society( not the 24 billion they are reported)with no hope of EVER regaining it’s economic status in the world. Kiss the pride and power of the U.S. goodbye. And as far as no one doing the jobs these illegals are doing, well THEY ARE DOING THE JOBS AMERICANS WERE DOING 5 YEARS AGO. Now, if you are cannot speak ESPANOL, you will not get hired because most employers know that most of the people in California DO NOT SPEAK ENGLISH.
    Arizona, and soon Utah, will take steps to try and protect what is left of their state. The Constitution should be changed and we must not allow “anchor baby” law to take place in this country any longer.

  33. sahibinden says:

    In Germany, you just need to be able to take a policeman to your papers if you are asked for them and don’t have them, or show them a photocopy that you have on you.

  34. longrow says:

    Take a peek at the even-handed documentary “9500 Liberty” if you’re interested in seeing what a hardline approach to illegal immigration did to Prince William County in Virginia a few years ago. It wasn’t pretty.

  35. Colin L Beadon says:

    Illigals are a problem in many of the best countries. Immigration officials have allowed it to get out of hand, and governments have sat on their own hands and allowed it to go on. Now illigals have reached critical mass. It is like a small leak starting off in a dam, and then washing out and getting larger and larger till part of the system breaks down and there is flooding below, for miles, and miles, and miles.
    Perhaps we are too human, to do much about it ?

  36. Jamie Pixon says:

    Scarey, just too scarey a law

    “What does an illegal alien look like anyway? Hispanic? Native American? How about Polish, Russian, German, Italian or Irish? I’m just sayin’… How the hell is one supposed to be on the lookout for illegal immigrants without profiling, ESP?”

    This is too logical a statement.

    Why is this country so screwed up with its policy making? Just get Bush back to give them all free citizenship.

  37. Rex Range says:

    Here’s the thing. In all of the smarmy, look-down-their-nose-at-the-rednecks pieces the Keith Olbermanns of the world continue to do about this, not one time are they interviewing anyone representing the vast majority of people in the state of Arizona who support this. All the mindless anchorettes on the big 3 anti-American networks natter on about Rush Limbaugh or whoever is their favorite target of the day. Yet they can’t be bothered to do a single interview with the legions of U.S. citizens who by now have had family members murdered on their own property, had their land overrun, had their children terrorized on the street right outside their own homes, because the U.S. government is allowing a tidal wave of illegal immigrants to wash across the southern border of this nation and flood states like AZ, CA, NM and TX. Who doesn’t sympathize with someone wanting a better life? Of course. Yet good people are getting butchered or otherwise having their lives ruined by our unstated “open borders” policy–for no reason other than they had the bad luck to be born or their families settle near our southern border–and I sympathize with them FIRST. You take care of them, make them whole, stop them from having to live in terror every second of their lives. Then we’ll talk about helping those who want to illegally pour across our borders.

  38. katie says:

    This is fabulous. Some great points are being made. I have zero problem with people who are not natural born citizens of the US coming in and getting a green card/citizenship the right way. However, I find it to be just dispicable to have them come here and work the jobs that many Americans are willing to work then sending the $$ back to Mexico. No wonder our economy is in the toilet and the unemployment rate is insanely high. I am not generalizing all Mexicans just the ignorant ones who refuse to speak English or bother to learn but still want to get treated like they have earned an ounce of respect. I know that America has no “official ” language but the majority speaks English. What is also so infuriating is all the Spanish on products just under the English. This isn’t helping the problem of people being ignorant. These companies are enabling them to live however they want with no regard to American cultures. These companies are also probably sitting at their desks all day complaining about how immigrants. Hypocrisy is so over. At one point our ancestors were all immigrants but they did it the right way. Its not as simple as just enforcing laws already in place BC there already has been too much slack. Its like letting a kid get away with stealing his siblings toys for years then suddenly deciding to discipline him. We never should have become so lazy about illegal immigration in the first place.

  39. They do not have the right to protest if they are here illegally!! Helloooooo, they do not get “have rights” because of that!

    Ramona Kent
    Author of “Anomar’s Journey”

    • immigrant1 says:

      That is correct Ramona.
      I dare any American that is against this AZ Law, to go to Mexico and protest on the streets.

  40. plucassf501 says:

    It amazes me how educated fools in the USA dont have a clue. The mexicans are not in favor of the white man occuping their forefathers land and can not get enough of their folks together in a one mind set to do anything about it. They will not get anywhere with marching and complaining. they are following the same sort of rules designed for them. The mexicans already citizens dont want them here and the whites dont want them here so go figure. Maybe the pope can bless them and send them off to Iraq to kill innocent women and children in order to be recognized as citizens. 10 mollion new fighters the war would be over quickley even in Iran and china. Send them to murder overseas. When its over we can use the war funds to rebuild America and put the mexicans to work mowing our lawns and cleaning our houses while we sleep in on the weekends. The mexican women are hot and will be left here when their husbands go off to war. we can give their children to the catholics to take care of they like little children. Problem solved.

  41. Since America has been doing it for years to black people, I find this so hypercritical. The false pouring out of feeling by the previledged. There are so many unconstitutional laws across this country, what makes this one different. Racial discrimination is a fundamental part of American justice. That’s why it is called American justice, because it is not real justice. To tell a trained bigot that he may act if he has reasonable suspicion, without guide line to consider constitutional rights is not reasonable. It is no more of a laugh today for these people than it has been for black people. The American justice system is base on money, so to make more laws to make more money is how judges, lawyers, prosecutors, police officers, clerks and ect. When you make the foundation of justice guess who loses. JUSTICE

  42. tinamarie says:

    “It is not strictly a Mexican problem. It is an illegal problem. When people break the law they (don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time) are like any other criminal. It is a crime to be in the USA illegally, period.”

    Exactly. The only difference is that in Arizona the vast majority of illegal immigrants are Mexicans. Does that mean we are profiling these individuals. Maybe. They are the root of the problem here.

  43. marianne says:

    You need a birth certificate to get a drivers’ license. All they have to do is check that to see if they are legal.

    I think people are making too much of this. How else are you going to enforce the law?

    People want law and order, but they object to law enforcement.

    It does not have to turn into martial law. They just need to identify illegal aliens and deport them. And if they live in Arizona, they are most likely Hispanic. That is not racial profiling. That is just common sense.

  44. canadiense_de_norje says:

    Don’t the illegals come to the US to uhh work? Someone is hiring them and paying them so it’s a demand *and* supply problem. Why not shut down businesses or confiscate/appropriate and sell the private property of people who knowingly hire illegal workers? Yeah .. actually take away the houses of people who knowlingly hire illegal nannies, cooks, gardeners etc. With the new law making it a criminal offense to be illegal immigrant any such household – i.e. one which is knowingly supported with cheap illegal labour – is now the proceeds of a crime.

    The problem is “Real (middle class) Americans” don’t know how to cook, clean, garden, raise their own kids or do manual labour so they outsource it then complain that the illegals are taking over:-P

    POGO said it best “We have found the enemy and he are us…”.

    • Nick says:

      That’s why I’m sure Texas would never touch this… I can’t even fathom how much money they save by hiring all that cheap labor.

  45. virginia says:

    I don’t have a problem with “mexicans” living here (any immigrant) and I’m hoping that the law doesn’t either — it’s about the ILLEGAL ones, regardless of race. If you want to be here, do what you have to but do it legally.

  46. Zol says:

    love this picture very strong! you can see her spirit dying!

  47. fondutv says:

    This new law is a bad idea no matter which way you present it and it is not what America was founded on. We are okay with giving illegal immigrants work to do the work that most Americans have no interest in doing. There just needs to be a better way to allow illegal immigrants to receive citizen ship in our country and racial profiling is not the way to go.

  48. It’s about those who will have their rights violated using this procedure. I myself know I don’t want to be stopped because of some unconstitutional procedure with no probable cause, remotely considered. I say no to any rule (law) that is illegal. The fact is any rule that violates the constitution is illegal, no matter how legal our government tries to make it. This is a continuing theme of our government. Give them this, and they will come for some more of your rights with another excuse. Today in the City were I live I can be stopped for no reason. It’s being done on a daily bases. The planting of evidence is more probable, they will be able to locate people who have petty warrants out on them without doing any professional police work. When you fail at your job you began to change to rules to make your job easier. How convenient it would be if we all could do that. The fact is that the Constitution was the guide lines for the government. It limited teir power, so that the rights of individuals would be protected. It is their job to protect the rights of it’s citizens

  49. Just Me says:

    This is all well and good IF the only people that are effected by this are illegal immigrants. Out of every 100 people questioned because of this bill, how many of them do you think will actually be ILLEGAL immigrants? I’m guessing it won’t be anywhere near 100.

    A few things that bug me about many of the PRO side’s arguments regarding this bill:

    1) You don’t need to be an illegal immigrant to be opposed to this bill. Sorry, but you don’t.
    2) You don’t have to be pro-illegal immigrants to be opposed to this bill either. You may just not want Legal Citizens to have their rights violated, or their freedoms taken away.

    How much of your freedom are you willing to give up for to keep illegal immigrants out? Would you be okay with being stopped because you look like you might be an illegal immigrant? How about being detained and questioned because you don’t happen to be carrying your papers on you at the time you were stopped? Assuming you’re okay with all of that, how many times are you okay with this happening to you? Once? Twice? Ten times? How about if it happens to one of your children who are perfectly legal US citizens?

    At what point are you giving away too much freedom in return for security???

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